Curse

Snow Bunny · Jul 29, 2008, 04:49 PM // 16:49

mrawr stop arguing you two.

The bottom line is that the classes with innate energy management built in work together almost flawlessly.

Warriors (adrenaline is basically an energy managent mechanic arguably), Necromancers, Dervishes, Assassins, and Paragons work together quite fluidly, as the infinite energy each class can obtain can fuel very powerful bars in a party.

Pretty much making one of those and throwing it in a well-organized group with the others will win PvE.

A combination of all of them makes for incredibly strong groups.

Bobby2 · Jul 29, 2008, 06:18 PM // 18:18

/applauds

Snow Bunny pwns by nailing it

DarkSpirit · Jul 30, 2008, 06:59 AM // 06:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

mrawr stop arguing you two.

The bottom line is that the classes with innate energy management built in work together almost flawlessly.

Warriors (adrenaline is basically an energy managent mechanic arguably), Necromancers, Dervishes, Assassins, and Paragons work together quite fluidly, as the infinite energy each class can obtain can fuel very powerful bars in a party.

Pretty much making one of those and throwing it in a well-organized group with the others will win PvE.

A combination of all of them makes for incredibly strong groups.

I never needed to bring any physicals with me (except maybe the BHA hench which I bring more for BHA than for her physical damage), still made MoP works, and have no problems in HM. Minions are sufficient for me to work the MoP mojo. All I needed from melee, if they come along, is to help bunch up the enemies and my fiends would do the rest.

Koning · Jul 30, 2008, 07:59 AM // 07:59

I don't think you can convince Darkspirit here. He will only cut himself in the fingers when he doesn't try to be fast (do the things suggested here), but aslong as he doesn't want help and stays running bad things, I don't care. Afterall I don't have to play with him, but it's more sad for his heroes who play with him...

DarkSpirit · Jul 30, 2008, 08:17 AM // 08:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koning

I don't think you can convince Darkspirit here. He will only cut himself in the fingers when he doesn't try to be fast (do the things suggested here), but aslong as he doesn't want help and stays running bad things, I don't care. Afterall I don't have to play with him, but it's more sad for his heroes who play with him...

Just because you disagree with me doesn't necessarily imply I am wrong. And my heroes are doing very well with me, thank you for asking, even for my mesmer. But I suppose no amount of screenshots can ever convince you otherwise.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...1&postcount=39

Zahr Dalsk · Jul 30, 2008, 08:27 AM // 08:27

Fact: physicals are better.

Thank you, have a nice day.

DarkSpirit · Jul 30, 2008, 08:39 AM // 08:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

Fact: physicals are better.

Thank you, have a nice day.

I agree, physical attacks are great! Without them, MoP and Barbs wouldn't work. Which is why I bring Fiends and [[Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support] and some physical henchies to help me out nowadays.

I like this screenshot, easy 3 swords for that mission in HM.

Abedeus · Jul 30, 2008, 08:49 AM // 08:49

Uhm. No.

If your MoP/AP gets removed, it's bye-bye damage. Splinter Weapon can't be removed. Player uses Whirlwind Attack and it's outdoing minion damage with MoP.

Add Dragon Slash and you've got lolwtfinyourface DPS.

But agree, he won't be convinced by anything.

Ben-A-BoO · Jul 30, 2008, 09:19 AM // 09:19

What are you guys fighting about? lol
You guys know that splinter triggers mop right?

Why limit yourself to casters or physicals only, if they have such great synergies?

Snoes · Jul 30, 2008, 09:20 AM // 09:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhamia Darigaz

SY+TntF+about 7 spears to the face says hi to pve
actually more like 4 spears and 3 scythes

And ur trying to be so cool, but your point is?

Koning · Jul 30, 2008, 10:03 AM // 10:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by timebandit

Why limit yourself to casters or physicals only, if they have such great synergies?

MoP is good, no doubt about that (I think noone ever said it was bad, just splinter weapon is a bit better). But this guy claims warriors/assasins/para's/dervs are bad due to wrong arguements. And that needs to be fixed.

Oh ye, try to clear FoW or something like that in under 50 min without physicals or splinter weapon (HM, no UB ofc). It will make you change your mind.

Tyla · Jul 30, 2008, 11:51 AM // 11:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timebandit

You guys know that splinter triggers mop right?

I think I've already mentioned that several times...

Bobby2 · Jul 30, 2008, 12:12 PM // 12:12

lol @ more screenshots

+1 for Assassins being leet (AP kinda makes it work huh? CHEATER!

)

Anyways, this is now no longer Windf0rce's thread about choosing a class, it's DarkSpirit's thread about wanting to be right. REALLY bad.

...Answer: still no.

-Lotus- · Jul 30, 2008, 04:20 PM // 16:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

If your MoP/AP gets removed, it's bye-bye damage. Splinter Weapon can't be removed. Player uses Whirlwind Attack and it's outdoing minion damage with MoP.

hahahaha, not even close

DarkSpirit · Jul 30, 2008, 06:24 PM // 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

Uhm. No.

If your MoP/AP gets removed, it's bye-bye damage. Splinter Weapon can't be removed. Player uses Whirlwind Attack and it's outdoing minion damage with MoP.

Dont worry, I have hex removal covered by bringing Shadow of Fear as a "fish" hex on my hero. As Moloch aptly put it on his AP-MoP build, "Shadow of Fear is ideal as a fish hex due to its long duration and fast recharge. It will draw out hex removal skills present in the mob. Without a skill like Shadow of Fear (or Meekness) you're pretty screwed if you get into a place where the monsters have any sort of elite hex removal".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koning

MoP is good, no doubt about that (I think noone ever said it was bad, just splinter weapon is a bit better). But this guy claims warriors/assasins/para's/dervs are bad due to wrong arguements. And that needs to be fixed.

I never said warriors/assasins/para's/dervs are bad. Did you notice the 2 warrior henchies I brought in that screenshot? If they are bad, why would I bring them? I said fiends are better at triggering MoP but melee classes are good with bunching up the group. Also before the fiends were created, they can also be useful for triggering MoP although their higher damage doesn't make that ideal.

Notice that in that screenshot, I had too much damage on the MoP target and it is going to die before its surrounding monsters. I was forced to cast AP and Barbs on him, then find another target to cast MoP on, so that wasn't really a perfect execution of MoP.

Splinter is not superior to MoP because MoP is armor ignoring, sticks around for 30s, and doesn't have a hit limit. Splinter is physical damage, reduced by physical armor, and ends after 5 hits at level 14. You are right that Splinter cant be removed although with fish or cover hexes, hex removal can also be easily defeated against stupid AI.

Tyla · Jul 30, 2008, 06:33 PM // 18:33

You know, it's funny that you use Moloch's wording on one part and go against his AP/MoP Nuker.

DarkSpirit · Jul 30, 2008, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

You know, it's funny that you use Moloch's wording on one part and go against his AP/MoP Nuker.

I didn't go against Moloch's wording. Moloch's build is good but I believe fiends would synergize better with such a build, that is from my personal experience. AP also helps with MoP because, like you see in the above screenshot, it is easy to make a mistake and kill the MoP target too fast with too much single target damage.

Snow Bunny · Jul 30, 2008, 06:59 PM // 18:59

DarkSpirit.

FoW, HM.

80k says we clear it faster with 7 physicals and a monk than you do with Necromancers and minions.

Quote:

(except maybe the BHA hench which I bring more for BHA than for her physical damage),

With physicals and damage buffs you don't need BHA. The sheer pressure brings down the caster. Willa the Unpleasant will outlast minions and barbs, but will crumble under physical pressure overload.

This is like trying to argue that physicals are inferior to Eles with Intensity and Elemental Lord.

It's simply not true.

DarkSpirit · Jul 30, 2008, 07:16 PM // 19:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

DarkSpirit.

FoW, HM.

80k says we clear it faster with 7 physicals and a monk than you do with Necromancers and minions.

With physicals and damage buffs you don't need BHA. The sheer pressure brings down the caster. Willa the Unpleasant will outlast minions and barbs, but will crumble under physical pressure overload.

This is like trying to argue that physicals are inferior to Eles with Intensity and Elemental Lord.

It's simply not true.

BHA is for interrupts, it is not for clearing fast directly, so they are seperate issues. I find interrupts are useful, especially like the Kuunavang mission which your melee fighters are not going to do much damage on him when he is flying.

But of course, different builds would have different effectiveness in different areas. Single-target damage has its advantages, I use a Discord hero team myself and find them to be effective. However, MoP just does not synergize well with Discord or any high single-target damage build, because you tend to kill the MoP target faster than you should.

So dont put forth a high single-target damage build and say "hey, by the way, I can also use MoP just as effectively" because they dont work as well together as fast and lower physical damage from fiends. That is my point.

Koning · Jul 30, 2008, 07:30 PM // 19:30

Why do you respond on every little sentence (with a reply that doesn't make sence, but ok) but you don't respond to a question of 2 people to proof that you can clear an area in under the time a team of physicals can? Or do you already know the outcome?